13 Sie 2006, 03:34
Maximal

Ostanio udało mi się kupić tanio na allegro taką pozycję:
http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
uczenia się z niej czy lepiej kupić cos do php5?



13 Sie 2006, 03:53
Xorock


Ostanio udało mi się kupić tanio na allegro taką pozycję:
http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
uczenia się z niej czy lepiej kupić cos do php5?



Jeżeli książka ma dobre komentarze (a ma) a Ty kompletnie nie znasz PHP
warto może zacząć naukę od PHP 4. Jest dużo prostsze. Gdy już poznasz
przynajmniej podstawy możesz przerzucić sie na PHP 5. Funkcje i logika
się nie zmieniają. Poza tym skoro kupiłeś książkę szkoda żeby się
zmarnowała.

13 Sie 2006, 06:22
orcus


Ostanio udało mi się kupić tanio na allegro taką pozycję:
http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
uczenia się z niej czy lepiej kupić cos do php5?



Jesli tam opisane jest OOP to zdecydowanie pomin te rozdzialy, bo w PHP5
programowanie obiektowe to zupelnie inna bajka.


13 Sie 2006, 06:44
Mateusz Markowski



| Ostanio udało mi się kupić tanio na allegro taką pozycję:
| http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
| Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
| uczenia się z niej czy lepiej kupić cos do php5?

Jeżeli książka ma dobre komentarze (a ma) a Ty kompletnie nie znasz PHP
warto może zacząć naukę od PHP 4. Jest dużo prostsze. Gdy już poznasz
przynajmniej podstawy możesz przerzucić sie na PHP 5. Funkcje i logika
się nie zmieniają. Poza tym skoro kupiłeś książkę szkoda żeby się
zmarnowała.



Piąta wersja PHP nie wniosła jakichś gigantycznych zmian w składni,
pomijając oczywiście programowanie obiektowe, więc nie rozumiem,
gdzie dopatrujesz się takiej różnicy pomiędzy trudnością nauki
"piątki" a "czwórki". Co do reszty, to prawda - mając podstawy PHP4,
bez problemu powinieneś się nauczyć PHP5.




13 Sie 2006, 07:03
Xorock


Piąta wersja PHP nie wniosła jakichś gigantycznych zmian w składni,
pomijając oczywiście programowanie obiektowe, więc nie rozumiem,
gdzie dopatrujesz się takiej różnicy pomiędzy trudnością nauki
"piątki" a "czwórki". Co do reszty, to prawda - mając podstawy PHP4,
bez problemu powinieneś się nauczyć PHP5.




końca ale można uogólnić). Raczej chodziło o to, że początkujący i tak
nie będzie wchodził w OOP więc PHP 4 spokojnie na początek wystarczy. A
przerzucenie się później na PHP 5 wiele czasu nie zajmie.

13 Sie 2006, 09:14
koszmarek


Ostanio udało mi się kupić tanio na allegro taką pozycję:
http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
uczenia się z niej czy lepiej kupić cos do php5?



Różnica subtelna, ale jeśli masz zamiar serio podejść do PHP lepiej
wydaj pare zł i kup od razu coś do PHP5 bo wyrobisz sobie złe nawyki, to
takie moje 3 grosze - osoby ktora zaczynala od C


13 Sie 2006, 12:32
Marcin Wasilewski


Różnica subtelna, ale jeśli masz zamiar serio podejść do PHP lepiej wydaj
pare zł i kup od razu coś do PHP5 bo wyrobisz sobie złe nawyki, to takie
moje 3 grosze - osoby ktora zaczynala od C



    A jakież to złe nawyki?
Oprócz programowania obiektowego, książka ta zawiera dokładnie to samo?
Register globals i tym podone sprawy, zostaly juz uregulowane od PHP4.

13 Sie 2006, 14:58
porneL


Ostanio uda?o mi si? kupi? tanio na allegro tak? pozycj?:
http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
uczenia si? z niej czy lepiej kupi? cos do php5?



Nie znam tej książki, ale generalnie moim zdaniem PHP4 to trup (pewnie  
mnie zaraz za to zjedzą :) i nie ma co go ruszać.
Szukaj książki wyłącznie o PHP5 i to takiej, która wykorzystuje jego  
możliwości, a nie tylko uczy kodu a'la PHP4 zgodnego z nową składnią.

http://pornel.net/php5


13 Sie 2006, 16:36
Mateusz Markowski

Nie znam tej książki, ale generalnie moim zdaniem PHP4 to trup (pewnie
mnie zaraz za to zjedzą :) i nie ma co go ruszać.



W jakim sensie trup? PHP4 jest nadal rozwijany i ma się całkiem
nieźle, o czym świadczy chociażby wypuszczona dziesięć dni temu
wersja 4.4.3. Poza tym, sporo popularnych frameworków zachowuje
zgodność z PHP4, co chyba nie jest przejawiem "śmierci" PHP4.


13 Sie 2006, 17:58
porneL



| Nie znam tej książki, ale generalnie moim zdaniem PHP4 to trup (pewnie
| mnie zaraz za to zjedzą :) i nie ma co go ruszać.

W jakim sensie trup? PHP4 jest nadal rozwijany i ma się całkiem
nieźle, o czym świadczy chociażby wypuszczona dziesięć dni temu
wersja 4.4.3. Poza tym, sporo popularnych frameworków zachowuje
zgodność z PHP4, co chyba nie jest przejawiem "śmierci" PHP4.



No dobra, trup może było złym określeniem, ale PHP4 jest już stary i  
wygląda cienko zarówno w porównaniu z innymi środowiskami, a nawet samym  
PHP. Dużo jego technicznych i projektowych problemów zostało rozwiązanych  
*lata* temu.

Jeśli stoisz po tej stronie barykady, która jest za projektowaniem  
obiektowym, to PHP4 będzie torturą - choćby notoryczne duplikowanie  
obiektów powoduje paskudne bugi i szukanie referencji i dostawianie & może  
stać się obsesją ;)

Brak paru przydatnych standardowych funkcji (choć PHP_Compat tu jest  
pomocny) i przede wszystkim brak kamieni milowych PHP jak SPL i PDO.


13 Sie 2006, 18:16
the_foe




| Nie znam tej książki, ale generalnie moim zdaniem PHP4 to trup (pewnie
| mnie zaraz za to zjedzą :) i nie ma co go ruszać.

| W jakim sensie trup? PHP4 jest nadal rozwijany i ma się całkiem
| nieźle, o czym świadczy chociażby wypuszczona dziesięć dni temu
| wersja 4.4.3. Poza tym, sporo popularnych frameworków zachowuje
| zgodność z PHP4, co chyba nie jest przejawiem "śmierci" PHP4.

No dobra, trup może było złym określeniem, ale PHP4 jest już stary i  
wygląda cienko zarówno w porównaniu z innymi środowiskami, a nawet samym  
PHP. Dużo jego technicznych i projektowych problemów zostało rozwiązanych  
*lata* temu.

Jeśli stoisz po tej stronie barykady, która jest za projektowaniem  
obiektowym, to PHP4 będzie torturą - choćby notoryczne duplikowanie  
obiektów powoduje paskudne bugi i szukanie referencji i dostawianie & może  
stać się obsesją ;)



a dlaczego mialyby sie duplikować?

Brak paru przydatnych standardowych funkcji (choć PHP_Compat tu jest  
pomocny) i przede wszystkim brak kamieni milowych PHP jak SPL i PDO.



PDO z tego co kojarze mozna spokojnie na 4 zainstalowac. Ponadto nie
nazwalbym tego kamieniem milowym. Wiekszosc nie wyskakuje poza mysql i dla
nich PDO nie tworzy historii


13 Sie 2006, 18:47
porneL


| Jeśli stoisz po tej stronie barykady, która jest za projektowaniem
| obiektowym, to PHP4 będzie torturą - choćby notoryczne duplikowanie
| obiektów powoduje paskudne bugi i szukanie referencji i dostawianie &  
| może
| stać się obsesją ;)

a dlaczego mialyby sie duplikować?



Bo obiektowość w PHP4 to jeden wielki hack - obiekty są przekazywane przez  
wartość, a nie przez referencję.

$a = new A();

obiekt $this w konstruktorze i $a będzie INNY, ponieważ operator = stworzy  
kopię... (trzeba =& użyć)

PDO z tego co kojarze mozna spokojnie na 4 zainstalowac.



Ja czegoś takiego nie kojarzę. Możesz podać linka?

Ponadto nie
nazwalbym tego kamieniem milowym. Wiekszosc nie wyskakuje poza mysql i  
dla nich PDO nie tworzy historii



Pierwszy sensowny, obiektowy interfejs? Jeden dla wielu baz? Bezproblemowo  
wspierający prepared statements? Ja wiem, że to wygląda na prymityw w  
porównaniu z C# 3.0, ale w światku PHP to rewelacja - pierwsze  
rozszerzenie dla PHP, które wygląda na przemyślane, a nie najpierw  

No i SPL, które przez interfejsy pozwala współpracować ze składnią PHP  
(udawanie tablic, wsparcie foreach) - to jest piękna rzecz. Poza  
elastycznymi tablicami chyba jedyna, która mnie trzyma przy PHP.


13 Sie 2006, 18:55
Mateusz Markowski

| PDO z tego co kojarze mozna spokojnie na 4 zainstalowac.

Ja czegoś takiego nie kojarzę. Możesz podać linka?



Istnieje substytut PDO dla PHP4:
http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/2572.html .


13 Sie 2006, 21:08
porneL



| PDO z tego co kojarze mozna spokojnie na 4 zainstalowac.

| Ja czegoś takiego nie kojarzę. Możesz podać linka?

Istnieje substytut PDO dla PHP4:
http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/2572.html .



Niestety strona chce ode mnie sprzedania nerki zanim pozwoli mi ściągnąć  
kod, więc nie wypowiem się na ile dobra jest ta podróbka.
Ale nawet jakby było perfekcyjne, to jeszcze brak SPL, mniej bezsensownego  
modelu obiektowego (choć w PHP5 wciąż prymitywnie jest - np. nie ma nawet  
leksykalnego kontekstu klasy (lexical scope) - metody klasy są taktowane  
tak samo jak zwykłe funkcje), itp.


14 Sie 2006, 03:00
Maximal

A jaką książke polecacie do PHP 5? Chodzi mi o pozycję uczącą od podstaw.
Ostanio udało mi się kupić tanio na allegro taką pozycję:
http://helion.pl/ksiazki/phmsql.htm
Ma dobre komentarze, ale problem w tym ze opisuje php4. Czy jest sens
uczenia się z niej czy lepiej kupić cos do php5?




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